Sep 12, 2008
Professor Brian Cox on Newsnight
There have been many times over the years when I’ve been extremely proud of my lovely husband. His appearance on Newsnight the other night is right at the bloody top of the list. Delight with me in the massive smackdown he gives to Sir David King who, believe it or not, is the President of the British Association of the Advancement of Science. Seriously.
“On this day, of all days.”
production 
QR Code DVD 
Makes me very sad, seriously even Sir David King? Brian did really good in the time he had. What can we expect with people like these. I know it takes months of explanations to change ignorant people. Remember Brian E. Cox is one of the smartest living things we know of (I am very serious) as Carl Sagan, Albert Einstein, Michio Kaku, Brian Greene, Richard Dawkins, Edward Witten, Phil Plait, Enrico Fermi, and a handful more.
Can’t wait to meet you Gia and Brian **edited for privacy reasons**
You must be so proud. :)
Go Brian! My head still hurts from my mindblowing day at CERN last year. If he thinks CERN is a waste of money I’m going to assume Sir David isn’t a London resident…
Thanks for this. I missed it on the night as i was catching up on study time I lost watching all the excitement unfold from LHC. Sir David came across as a patronizing blinkered bean counter and Brian did an awesome job ( as always) at smacking him down. We are all proud of him and all the scientists and engineers at LHC. As Brian says why opour cold water on it on this of all days?
Excellent smackdown. While I think Sir David is right to be worried about climate change, Brian’s rejoinder about CERN’s cooling technology being used in fusion research was bang on target.
P.S. I note the rather delicious coicidence that the CAPTCHA asked for this comment is “ignorant as”. Answers, on a postcard please, to the British Association for the Advancement of Science…
Geoff- I’m not a scientist, but, obviously, have been following the whole STFC funding crisis of physics and astronomy and how the government has been saying they need to push young scientists into ‘useful’ research like climate change and cancer research… I thought it showed that politicians have a total lack of understanding of how science works…
To then realise that Sir David King was the government’s chief science advisor makes it ALL fit into place. The guy clearly has a bee in his bonnet about physics and astronomy…
Hello Gia
I am to physics teacher who messaged you on Facebook about the school’s CERN party. I just wanted to say that I watched this Newsnight too and was totally…
a) disgusted by the utter ignorance of DK, I couldn’t believe as Brian quite rightly said, that he tried to spoil and play down this exciting day. My kids are STILL buzzing about the LHC switch on and are STILL asking me questions and are STILL thinking that particle physics is cool. For that man to try to do that when these kids feel that way is just revolting. People like Brian (and the other 99 999 or so CERN scientists) are inspiring.
b) delighted at your husband’s eloquent responses…. as I said on Facebook I would have been much less eloquent and more gutter mouth in my is my response. What a dignified yet passionate man he is, you are right to be proud of him.
c) also disgusted that people are abusing your blog. For me it is a way to talk about important issues and also to find out about articles and videos of note, that I often use in class. I am a real fan of this site and hope that you are able to keep informing us for a long time to come.
I wish you well Gia, and on the occasions when people have attacked my husband my tiger impression is extremely fierce too… I hope peole leave you alone now to get on with your excellent work.
I hope you have a good weekend with lots of wine! I have to stop using the LHC switch on as a party excuse now I guess……;-D
I am meeting up with some other physics teachers tonight (yes, all the other people reading this physics.teachers.can.party!!)
Science is so totally screwed if people like Sir David King can become President of the British Association of the Advancement of Science. He needs to be ousted, right now. The LHC is a triumph of technology, engineering and physics that should be hailed as one of humanity’s greatest achievements.
It’s always nice when practical results come out of theoretical experiments, but you can’t predict when that’s going to happen, and if you hit the theoretical on the head, you’re also sacrificing an unknown number of practical outcomes. You just can’t have one without the other. King is an idiot. Well done to Brian for a brilliant, brilliant smackdown.
Yes! That is awesome. Thank you so much for putting that up. (Especially as I don’t have a telly and couldn’t find anyone to tape it for me, like I usually do.)
Good points, well made.
This is the whole thing about the links between science and technology. The greatest leaps forward in technology are almost always driven by almost accidental spin-offs of science done “for pure curiosity.” Like the point you made last week, about the last time CERN did a really big experiment, they invented the internet.
To paraphrase/mangle the old truism, if a young scientist says something is useful, it probably is, but if an old scientist says something is useless, it almost certainly isn’t!
Masonic Boom said:
“…about the last time CERN did a really big experiment, they invented the internet.”
Sorry, I’m going to have to go into Pedant mode now… CERN did NOT invent the internet. Tim Berners-Lee (to whom all praise) invented the underlying protocols (HTTP) and the markup language (HTML) that is the foundation of the World Wide Web. But these rode upon the shoulders of the sleeping giant that was already there: the internet – invented as a result of work done back in the 1960s funded by DARPA.
It may be a nit-picking point to some, but I do think that the facts matter and we forget them at our peril…
/*Pedant mode, and returning you to your normal transmissions…
Geoff- I get pedantic about that, too, don’t worry!
The Internet was invented in 1969 – the ARPANET.
Hey. anyone else remember gopher sites? (I was surprised to see that there are still some kicking around!).
On the other hand, what you two pedants are ignoring is that the CERN invented the World Wide Web platform — which was what made the Internet useful and interesting for the masses.
With mail and chat and office applications moving up into the “cloud”, the World Wide Web is, for all practical purposes, the Internet for the vast majority of all users.
(Well, for the vast majority, that blue “e” in the upper corner of their screen is the internet, but I’m sure you get the point…)
@Observer – hello, I don’t think that you are being particularly observant in your observation. Tim Berners-Lee was working for CERN at the time when he invented the http://WWW... And he came up with it, not CERN… As I say, I do think the facts matter. Some people may believe that Sarah Palin is a feminist, but believing it does not make it so…
Apologies for my lazy bad quoting without looking up the original. I’ll go boil my head and never try to agree with anyone again. :-(
Geoff, I’d say you’re *way* too pedantic for your own good. Tim did the work at CERN, for CERN, on a computer provided by CERN for the specific project, in an attempt to solve real problems that CERN had, working together with other CERN researchers, and with CERN management’s support.
If you don’t believe some random guy on the internet, I suggest reading the original proposal:
http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html
Sorry, I’m being a bit touchy online today because I’ve just had someone I thought was a colleague and a friend massively and publicly try to sabotage my upcoming show. So I’m feeling a bit sensitive.
Myself, I get really pedantic about extraneous apostrophes in “plural’s”. But the problem with pedanticism is that one can get so caught up in details that one misses the point of the larger picture.
Like many lay people, I get the internet and the WWW mixed up. I’m sure most of you couldn’t tell a fan brush from a filbert without googling. I thought it was Gia who made the point about the CERN/Web connection, but I’ve read so much coverage of the LHC in the past few days that I could be mistaken.
My point was, that the useful technological applications resulting from pure science research can often be totally unexpected and even tangential. So criticising research for being “too obscure” or a waste of money because it doesn’t fit in with the current political spin is a really invalid criticism. Like I said, just agreeing with what’s already been said.
Now back to boiling my head.
i can’t possibly understand what’s all the whining about! It’s not the first big budget experiment and i’m so sorry that i don’t understand politics but i find it rather reasonably right on time.We seriously need a breakthrough.And aren’t discoveries supposed to be for world wide use?so what is it with the european conspiracy?there are other lame theories i wouldn’t like to share with you and shamelessly my own country is bringing up and supports them.They bassicaly regurgitate misleading information so i’m tired, i hate the press and i’d likely plug my ears like this requires.I’m so sorry and ashamed it’s not the same for you.I don’t know how may i help you, your husband and the comunity at CERN.Please let me know what else can i do besides informing bloody ignorants!I’m terribly sorry for my grammar and spelling, i’m not well acustomed with english because i’m not a native speaker.It’s quite difficult doing nothing with all this nonesense threating the experiment.
Masonic Boom- Don’t boil your head! I wasn’t being bitchy about it! It’s just one of those things (like plural’s) that I can’t help, but be pedantic about… I *wish* I could just let it go… ;) (:dorkvoice: the internet is not the web blahblahblah :/dorkvoice:)
Geoff- I would say that it’s correct to say that the Web was invented at CERN…
“I would say that it’s correct to say that the Web was invented at CERN”.
Absolutely. No argument about that. I was simply pointing out that the individual behind it was Tim B-L.
“T’interweb” is a good phrase. It can be thrown around nonchalantly in an ironic, comical sense by those in the know, and cover your ignorance if you don’t.
I’d just like to say bravo to Prof. Cox! I’m studying science with the Open University and will be learning a ton more about physics over the coming years, how lucky am I to be do so at the same time as the LHC experiment? It’s people like Brian that have inspired me to read, learn and boggle my mind with what science has to offer.
Hey – Richard Dawkins is retiring soon… Brian should get the job of Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science!
Neil Davis – Prof. Cox replacing Prof. Dawkins.
What an excellent idea. Don’t know why the the thought never crossed my mind as I had been wondering who might replace RD. Can think of no one who would do the job better, especially after the wonderful performance on Newsnight.
As a professor of psychology and a keyboard player myself, I think it’s sad that some people in other forums attack Brian Cox “in total” based on a very valuable experiment which they do not yet fully understand, or based on a statement or two that Brian has made.
I think the most valuable reminder we can take from Brian is that if we want to be honest with ourselves, we suspend judgment until we have the evidence. I’ve done quite a bit of research on the LHC and its main advocate, Mr. Cox, and so far I can only conclude that his work is more honest, compassionate and brilliant than his critics let on.
If they ever make another movie entitled “A Beautiful Mind”, I think future generations would be better served if it was about someone such as Brian Cox rather than the mathematical genius “John Nash” who often belittled his students and colleagues.
In my estimation, a person worthy of respect should not only have the intellectual intelligence of Professor Nash, but the added bonus of creative intelligence and emotional intelligence evidenced by most of Brian Cox’s work, words and family life. None of us are perfect, but he seems to have a relatively healthy balance with things that make for a better life for himself and those around him.
Do you know what has happened to Brian’s blog site? It seems to have been down ever since the LHC switch on! On the radio I thought I’d heard he’d be posting stuff about it there, but it keeps timing out.
Hi Nigel. I have had the same difficulties as you have. Perhaps there is a problem with the server or his service provider. Nevertheless, and whatever the case may be, we hope Brian’s site is up again soon.
“If love means wishing everyone a better world, I can honestly say I love just about everyone.” – Chris Aable http://www.self-evolution.org
Not much of a smack down really. It was a very respectful exchange of differing points of view.
If I may, I think another argument that could have been presented would have been to ask how much money is being spent (and was spent) on other useless projects. Projects like ARPANET (now called the Internet)…Mosaic (which gave rise to http://www)…Fission (nuclear reactors and the BOMB)…supercomputers (now being used to model proteins and simulate nuclear reactions so we don’t have to blow things up anymore for real)…quantum dots…dna chips…the list goes on.
I think we should leave what is practical and beneficial NOW to the engineers…who take the raw research and discoveries of scientists and turn them into something useful.
As soon as science only does what is beneficial and useful NOW, true innovation dies. True research dies.
What remains would be scientists resorting back to mental experiments (ala Einstein).
Chris…..
If we are going to be pedantic…..
In this country, the title “professor” is something that has to be earned and is one of the few symbolic acts of recognition that scientists can earn. To then refer to someone who has achieved this as a “mr” is tantamount to a slur.. And where exactly are you professor? And why do you think you are so like Professor Cox?
b.
Nigel and Chris- I put a little note at the top of my page about our server: it was hacked last week and as it has access to CERN data the ‘people behind the scenes’ have kept it offline and are going through it meticulously before getting it up again…
Shouldn’t be too long now.
Giagia – Thank you.
Bruce, please accept my apologies if I offended anyone with “Mr.” as opposed to “Professor” Cox. I taught Psychology and Sociology at CSULA and asked my students to call me simply “Chris”. If they wanted to call me “Mr.” or anything else I would never consider that to be “tantamount to a “slur” and I trusted their emotional intelligence to the point that they felt the same while having respect for who is in charge of the lessons. They didn’t disappoint in what really matters – understanding and learning. One thing I suggest that Professor Cox and I might have in common is that we don’t let little things like “slurs” or titles bother us as much as it might bother others. Or as some psychologist might suggest, things are only as important as we ourselves make them, and no words can make us feel anything negative without our permission. You ask me: “why do you think I am so like Professor Cox?” when I have not indicated anything outside of the fact that we both worked at playing keyboards in a band and as professors. No two people are anywhere near “alike” in total, as we all have our different talents, experience, creativity and knowledge to offer the world. For example, I would never pretend to speak for “this country” or any country, but would add that “slurs” can be found among all populations, whether imagined or not. In the broader and truer context I praised Professor Cox highly and will continue to do so. I have the greatest respect for him in many areas, which I also thought I made clear. Again, please accept my apologies for leading anyone to interpret otherwise.
Brian Cox rocks !!! Oops, I didn’t use “Professor”.
Chris, my dear friend, you owe NOBODY an apology. Everyone who knows you well knows that you are a good man and that’s all that matters. In addition, those who can’t stand reading the word “MR.” should get a life… There are more important things for Bruce to do than to police people because he has a chip on his shoulder about the word mister.. His URL indicates that he clings to his titles while stereotyping where someone teaches and entire countries with sweeping generalizations and thin-skinned attacks about an slur born of his thin-skinned imagination, all of which speaks louder than all of his Psychology degrees and vaulted awards put together.
Chris.. you don’t owe me an apology.
I was just pointing out an important distinction in the UK…. a demarcation of academic merit and one that has to be earned. At least “Dr.” would have been OK
Hence Gia’s pride in announcing this accolade earlier in year and subsequent (and appropriate) use since.
Miss, Ms, Mrs, or Mr Terry. Hi…it doesn’t matter, does it?
And the point was Terry if I was not being too subtle for you;
If you feel the need to use titles, then you the correct one, otherwise just leave them out..
What’s imagination got to do with the price of oil?
Chris, whilst I agree that there’s no need for an apology, Bruce does point out that there is a distinction between how the UK and the US use the title Professor. Here, it’s an official, earned academic title which is ‘one up’ from Doctor. The next highest title is ‘Sir’, I expect. Or ‘Lord’. Then ‘Baron’… etc
Titles *are* important in the UK. And I expect you just didn’t understand the distinction.
Don’t call him Mr. next time though. I mean, he’s not a *surgeon*… ;)
Thank you, Giagia. I think I now get the distinction and thus out of that respect I have since referred to Professor Cox as “Professor Cox” at least three times in my past post. Although to some degree I wish all of these cultural distinctions and formalities didn’t have to get in the way of my over-riding message, which is both a message of great respect and a message in defense of Professor Cox, whenever and wherever I have the time to do so in this and other forums. Many of my students called me “Professor”, but you can me Chris or “student” – I consider myself a lifelong student. I appreciate the lesson about the relative importance of titles in our respective cultures, and have no designs to misunderstand or slip up again in the future.
Peace,
Chris Aable
I meant to place the above in “quotes” as the above post is an email I got from Chris, who is away for a few days in Long Beach. He is not only a dear friend as I indicated, but I work for him here at self-evolution.org.
Kindest regards,
Terry Madison
Brian’s PhD students and colleagues just call him Brian, as I expect do Bruce’s… but if either of them were introduced or spoken about in a professional capacity, then ‘Mr.’ is just wrong.
“Mr.” is what surgeons are called for some reason. Anyone know why?
Exactly Gia…. that’s all I meant.
I prefer students and colleagues not to use the title but if it’s the press or something in the public domain where credentials are important then yes…it counts
Surgeons are called mr because originally they were all dentists (that’s why dentists are mr).
PhD “dr.” (doctor of philosophy) is actually older than the medical doctor title which was adopted by the medical profession to seem more credible.
Interesting. Here in the states and a few other countries I’ve been to, surgeons and dentists are called “Doctor”. Just about all others are addressed “Mr.” or “Mrs.” when using the last name only and when posting informally in relatively informal forums or blogs. I suppose it’s a matter of cultural relativism.
I’d refer to Bruce as Bruce, but *never* as Mr. Hood. He’s Professor Hood. That’s his title. Same as one always refers to a military person with their title.
Actually, the title Brian would LOVE to get is Brigadier, just cos it sounds funny. Doubt there’s any way of getting it without being in the military though.
LOL, well the Beatles did have their “Seargent Pepper’s Lonely Heart’s Club Band”, but I suppose that’s artistic license. In my humble view, they are nevertheless five star Generals in the constant struggle for Self-Evolution and peace. .=o)
Hiya Gia
When David King was appointed Chief Scientific Advisor to the Government, I expected someone with the intellectual span of his predecessor, Bob (Lord) May. I got a first whiff of his limitations just over a year ago when he gave a lecture on climate change at out Uni. He argued strongly but in the post lecture discussion, I asked why he mentioned no cap on air transport expansion and he argued it wasn’t necessary. In other words, when it comes to science, he will gladly follow a political path. I have rarely seen a public figure so thoroughly humiliated as King was on Newsnight. Just imagine, this bumbling Luddite buffoon arrogates to himself the “power” to decide what scientists like Brian should work on. Newton would have been told to stick to the mint. Thomson wouls have been told to stop wasting time on those fucking electrons and Tim Berners-Lee would have been told that whatever it was the crystal ball fairy said he would invent, he should leave the stimulating environment that would provoke him to invent the web, before particle physics got the credit for providing the stimulus. It is a kind of grim pleasure to see King’s body language towards the end of Newsnight piece. You can see “I’ve just been used to wipe the floor”. The words patronising, old and git spring to mind.
Prof Robin Marshall
Gia,
In addition to what Bruce posted, surgery and medicine were largely separate until about the 19th century, due to the fact that they developed as separate entities.
Or to quote an orthopaedic surgeon, ‘People think doctors are descended from shamans and herbalists. This is true. I’m a not a doctor but a surgeon, and my professional skills descend from Ottoman torturers, curious butchers and the public hangman.’
Re Newsnight: Superb. Brian dropped the nut on Sir David, while remaining composed, and with impecable timing. I’m impressed, but not surprised. Last Christmas I took my two eldest sons to see a talk given by Brian at Birmingham University. He held a lecture theatre full of people spellbound while he described the world of particle physics, and he even had a few kind words for my boys afterwards. You’re proud, we’re proud. Keep it up guys.
Have been reading this debate with interest from afar…….Bruce partially correct about the reasons why surgeons in the UK are called Mr……it is because originally surgeons were not Drs but barbers hence the red and white barbers pole signifying blood and bandages. They also used to pull teeth. In the UK you first get a medical degree….Dr….then train as a surgeon and become Mr. Then if you happen to do a PhD you could become Dr again or if you get a chair you become Professor like Bruce and Brian. However if you are knighted it becomes more confusing……you become Professor Sir…… or Professor Lord etc etc….sorry getting a bit boring now.
Have looked at Professor Chris Aable’s (Brown ??) website……hmmmm interesting photos.
um,
my TV connexions have just phoned to ask if I know Brian’s nickname in celeb circles. I didn’t :D
It’s a good one and I’ll let you put it out Gia.
One could add a third rhymer if things turn out.
Prof R
Robin-
Yes, that ‘nickname’ was made up 5 years ago by Chris Morris when I told that I was getting married. He said, ‘What? To Walking Hawking?’ I probably told only 2 people, so clearly one of them told Popbitch… :)
Well done Chris!
Do you mean Gia, that people actually talk to popbitch, as apposed to them doin a bit of research.
If we said,
putting aside recent events
he’s a
walking talking dawking hawking,
how long before pb post that?
I had a plan/plot for the Hawking Hole at JB. Brian might remember. H thwarted me by getting married for the 2nd time on the relevant weekend.
Prof R
This is truly fabulous. I love the fact that Paxman – who one is not overly fond of – cannot get a word in edgeways – I am sure at some point I heard JP make a comment about wiping intelligent life off the earth – I really hope this isn’t JP alluding to the doomsday theories -he may be a bit of a pompous arse (am I allowed to say that?) but one would hope he might be a faction of the beeb that wouldn’t get drawn into all the will it – won’t it end lunacy. BBC breakfast anchors – yes that’s you Turnbull – ought to be ashamed of themselves for scaring my 9 year old daugher silly on the morning of the 10th. Usefully this brings me to being here and mooching about, reading with interest rather than the apathy that most publications and/or blogs instill in me these days, thanks to you and BC for being so human, accessable, grounded and reasoned. I am an ex journalist and am all to aware of why the media takes the bait and runs with it at lightning speed with the trolls stampeding behind but my young daugher does not. When she returned home from school a couple of weeks back, lips quivering, eyes as big as saucers, visibly shaken by the verbal bullys spreading the playground word and one particularly inept teacher who, when asked if the world might end, commented, “well yeah it might” (I phoned headteacher!), well it was all I could do to promptly sit her down in front of YouTube and watch a variety of clips of the Prof explaining things in his inimitable way. As I said – thanks. :)
Gia, what does a scientist do?I’m 13 so i was thinking i can still choose between physics, architecture and writing:)
I work in the same general research field as David King, namely surface science. As I’ve discussed in a little more detail in a post at the Discover blog , it’s been immensely depressing to listen to the president of the British Association for the Advancement of Science put forward the view that much of basic research is a waste of taxpayers’ money. (King will argue that the preceding statement doesn’t capture the “caveats” of his position. I would in turn argue that an ex-chief scientific advisor should be sufficiently media-savvy to realise just how his comments would be interpreted. The timing of his “broadside” against basic research was certainly impeccable and showed a very good understanding of how to manipulate the media).
Brian Cox’s performance on Newsnight was simply fantastic – impassioned, entertaining, inspiring, and focused. (I can now almost forgive him for contributing to that New Labour anthem “Things can only get better”…)
Queen Jane- a scientist does research into things that have yet to be discovered, they write papers on their research, lecture if they’ve got a lecturing position… They also seem to travel around the world to conferences with other scientists fairly often, too! With Brian I’ve been to conferences in Rio, Japan, Vietnam and the usual places like France, Italy, Germany…
Maybe Prof Robin Marshall will see this and let you know some more. He’s the Head of the Particle Physics Group at Manchester… :)
that’s what i wanted to read about! The good rewarding part(which still comes as a treat in everyday research i do for my own)because anything else makes the first one tastier.Thank you, Gia!
Hello Gia!
My respect goes to Brian for being able to not punch DK in the face. Seriously, some twa.. Err I mean people, make me wanna rip my face off.
I mean, just go and read some of the comments at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/09/06/do0604.xml
I hate that feeling when I am practically ashamed for being human being because of other people stupidity…
Replying to Queen Jane (and Gia’s comment):
Facing a choice between physics, architecture and writing probably means that you will manage 2/3 in the medium career term, QJ. Combining physics and architecture seems difficult although if you got into nano stuff, you will be able design and build your own big molecules, a bit like an architect. I urge you to put a lot of effort into writing (good English). No better language for prose was ever devised, despite what the French say. If you must talk street stuff with your friends, make sure you keep proper English going on the side. If u tlk @ intervws like u tlk 2 yr m8s, no one will ever hire you to a decent job. I’d say do physics, keep architecture going as a “hobby”, writing about it as well as physics. Try very hard to keep your maths up. You need it to do physics well. We describe complicated systems by using maths formulae. It’s the only way.
Now as for being head of particle physics, I gave that up 3 years ago and was hired on to do research into anything I liked, provided it was 50% physics and 50% biology. And I write stuff, like I have 3 books in progress. So in the long term, you can do whatever you like, 3 things, even more so if you are good at it.
good luck.